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High Tech - Low Code
High Tech - Low Code
#2 Disruption Time! Building a Business During Covid-19
Together with Mário Cunha, CEO Tiago Neves and Head of People and Talent, Rebecca Garland, discuss what it means to navigate a business through the obstacles of the worldwide corona pandemic and form a brand new international team at the same time.
Hello, and welcome to the high tech local podcast. On today's episode, I'm happy to announce that we have the company of Rebecca Garland as our co-host. How are you doing, Rebecca?
Rebecca Garland:Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you?
Mario Cunha:Oh, good, all good.. And today we're going to talk about to building a startup during the reign of the dreadful COVID. And to help us with that we have as our guest no other than Tiago Neves, founder of OutSprint. Thank you for taking some time from your schedule to join us and how are you doing Tiago?
Tiago Neves:Hey, good, yeah, all good. Hi, glad to be here, Mario and Rebecca.
Mario Cunha:Nice, nice. I would say let's kick this off with, I would like to start by asking you, if you could tell us a bit about OutSprint, you know, what you hope to achieve with it? What is the driving idea behind it?
Tiago Neves:We've been around for now, two, three years, almost three years now. But as a business, were really just starting to thrive for the last 12 months more or less. We have, let's say a very challenging future ahead of us, we are digital consultants working towards digital transformation, digital operations and taking the ride of low code, which is now basically well throughout all different industries. So it's something that is horizontally reaching out every business. But besides what we do, which is definitely something that as a future, but besides what we deliver as a business, there's more to our organisation, then just our services. And so I would say that what motivated me to start with OutSprint was more than just building up a business, it was actually building an organisation that I hope to be here for a long time and that OutSprint will definitely be here still 100 years from today. But exactly working towards building a future together with those that are somewhat involved with the organisation. And we pretend to leave a legacy or building up on a legacy throughout the discussions we have as a team. We do speak about so what is our short term, our long term, and on that vision of the long term? There's actually a little bit of an utopia that we should have in our minds that should be driving us on a day to day knowing that an utopia is something we won't be able to achieve but we should believe in it and get as close to it as we can really.
Mario Cunha:Okay, you mentioned that utopia. Tell me a bit more about that. So at least you know, broad brush strokes, what you understand, what is that OutSprint utopia?
Tiago Neves:Okay, so you're opening up a can of worms here. Okay. Okay, so Well, is this gonna end up anywhere?
Mario Cunha:Doesn't matter. A short paragraph, I would say?
Tiago Neves:Well, let's just say that. So throughout life we face all different challenges, situations and there's just that belief that we can do better, both personally speaking, that we can always keep growing as a person, but at the same time that, well life is not always fair, or I would say that it isn't fair. And there are some people that deserve opportunities that don't have others, that have opportunities that they will just not take them. And I believe that we should be here trying to work towards a better balance and in fact, working towards a better world. To be honest, that's sort of what motivates me to lead an organisation like OutSprint is that utopia that I'm not working for today, but working for a future that is up there on that, on that two topic, a vision.
Mario Cunha:And that's quite interesting. Oh, sorry, Rebecca, go ahead.
Rebecca Garland:Okay. I think I mean, I think that's one of the reasons that that I joined OutSprint because when I met Tiago, I felt that his approach to running a business was really different to what I've experienced in the past. There was more of an interest in how we felt as employees, how we saw the business growing, you know, what interest we had, had we any initiatives, any ideas. There was, it wasn't just about one person as the CEO, it was about OutSprint as an organisation and how each individual member of the team can have an impact on the business as a whole and can help the business to grow and thrive. And I think that is what kind of helps us to stand out from the crowd and what makes us, you know, special.
Mario Cunha:All right. All right. It's pretty good. Okay. Tiago, how did you experience the global pandemic, as a CEO of a startup, you know? How did it affect your planning? Because you said that the company was already, has already been around for three or four years now. Right? So did it change anything in your day to day operations?
Tiago Neves:Well, it, I mean, obviously, we're still going through this pandemic, and it certainly has affected everyone, one way or the other, everyone has been affected by it. And as someone that is, leading a company, a business, an organisation, in a way, so being a bit of here godfather of everyone within the team, it is challenging, and the first period of when everything started to hit and so we had to everyone go on lockdown, schools closing and so on. First, you just wonder, okay, I mean, it's, you might even get a feel of a bit of a knock up Apocalypse kind of thing. Because your life completely changes. And all of a sudden, if you're not even able to interact with the people that were there on your day to day, either some family member, friend you end up seeing every day. So it was, it definitely, took up everyone's way of also looking at the world. So I get that feeling that I've been speaking with lots of people either, because we where recruiting and so on. But on my day to day, I also have the opportunity to speak with people that are based, I mean, throughout the world, so different time zones, different situations. So where they are in the curve, let's say of the pandemic, and it's just, it's been a truly world experience everyone has gone through, it's one way or the other. And it has made everyone think about their lives, about the world they're living in, what we're doing here. What do I want to accomplish from my life? It is, and so I've been part of that too, in a way. But at the same time, I really feel like this is something that definitely will go into the history books, and we will be talking about in 20 years. Oh, remember the time before before COVID. And what happened afterwards? And so it's definitely going to make, definitely a huge disruption time for everyone. Personally, so in our lives, as well as within business, and oh, I'm pretty sure all, at this moment, there are ideas popping up everywhere about so what life is and how can we improve it and so on and we're all, we're only actually going to see the impact of all of this in a few months in two, three years down the line, when some of these ideas will actually come to life I would say.
Mario Cunha:Yeah, so definitely, that is a trend that we are seeing that is a lot of people are starting to reevaluate their values, even on their, you know, day to day, normal daily life and work balance, you know, and people are just starting to validate, maybe I don't need that shiny new car every year. And maybe I need actually something from more, that will make me feel better. Who knows. But
Rebecca Garland:I think it's also things like people that realise that, you know, if they're not commuting in and at work every day, they get to spend more time with their kids, they get to have breakfast with their kids, but they're going to bed, you know, spend more time doing exercise, saving money, you know, commuting in London is expensive. And it's not so good for TfL. But for the likes of you will may, you know, you're saving kind of people, they're saving five or 600 Quid a month on travel. And they're able to use that time, you know, for themselves instead of, you know, at being the daily slog of travelling and in order to work, they actually have more time to spend on them. You know, just simple things like cooking a proper dinner, or going for a run, or being able to watch an episode of a series on TV. I think it's just made people realise that prior COVID, let's say that there was way too much time, unnecessary time spent in the working environment and working in an office when the reality is people have almost thrived working from home.
Mario Cunha:I think back to that in a few moments, but it's definitely interesting thinking that it had to be COVID to liberate us from the rat race for so to speak.
Rebecca Garland:I think there always has to be something, I think there's always something major in even in just, you know, your life that makes you think, right, okay, something's got to give here. But instead of it being one person, it's been the entire world who have had this big thing hit at once. And, you know, they've realised, alright, you know, I've got to switch my priorities around here.
Mario Cunha:Okay, which takes me to the next point, which is now we've reorganised our priorities, we rethink our ways of living. But in terms of a young startup, like OutSprint, what gives it you know, the necessary confidence to continue
to:okay, we will be able to strive, we'll be able to move to the next step, the next level, what gives you the confidence to say, yeah, we'll be able to do it, you know?
Tiago Neves:I mean, so back back in March, then everything, hits and we were on lockdown. Obviously, we wonder, how long is this going to happen for, how long? Are we going to be in this situation? Are we ever going to get out of this? Obviously, we believe so. But, but I wonder how long it would take and everything stopped, basically. So our personal lives as well as business. And we've been fortunate, let's say to not actually have our business impacted, but there are other companies, so people that I know, I speak with, with basically same same sort of business, that were impacted. And so their projects were frozen. So companies will try to cut costs, and they will do it through external parties, first of all, so contractors, companies providing services, so they will cut on that, first of all, and while some have, unfortunately, also, some have really reduced salaries of their workforce. So there has been that too. So even though we've managed not to be impacted in that way, we, I mean, we do think, is it going to get to us too, and when, or when are we going to get out of this? Because if it keeps on going, sooner or later, so it will get to us too. So obviously, that there was that, that uncertainty and so questioning that, like other people in their daily struggle, so either they were put on furloughs or so they actually were made redundant or so they the salary were reduced. So everyone, one way or the other, whwer questioning, so what was going to happen and how long they will be able to make ends meet basically, we're not completely out of that yet. Really, and it's been so it's been like four or five months now. So we're recording this by end of August and so it's been more or less five months, since UK was was put on lockdown. But at the same time, in terms of what we do as a company, the services we deliver, we were actually we couldn't be in a better position, really, because the only way out of this situation is really to go digital. And if there are many companies wondering how digital their business should be, now they're just questioning, I mean, how fast can we do it. And so that, has been good for us in that way, I would say that things take time to change and we're sort of now seeing, in practical terms, that things are really starting to move towards that disruption, and so all of that digital transformation is that maybe will take two years is happening, or has happened in the in the last three, four months. And we are positioned to basically take advantage of that situation. In the meantime, I'm happy to say that so we've also been bringing some positive things into other people's lives. We've been recruiting and giving a little bit of hope to few people that were actually in these different situations. So being put on furlough, made redundant, that we're just looking for a new challenge in their lives. And so transitioning jobs, and where not finding a way out. So it's just part of life, I guess. So it's just a disruption that we're going through and people are shifting from previous reality into a new future basically, rescaling their whatever their background is, but trying to reskill, trying to find a new path for their career. We've seen that boom in digital learning, online learning I mean, and so all of that is happening and it's still happening. And for sure, we're not done yet, independently of how fast we're back to normal. This is just a trend that was there already. And it's just going to keep on going.
Mario Cunha:Definitely, this has been quite a change. Talking about the recruitment side this is more for Rebecca, would you ever expected anything similar to this to have happened during your lifetime in your career time?
Rebecca Garland:I actually didn't really properly introduce myself either. I'm actually the head of people in talent at OutSprint. So I've been quite heavily involved in the recruitment that we've been doing over the last nearly three months. I had never thought in my lifetime, I would experience anything like this never mind my career. And I genuinely felt when this all kicked off that it was, you know, like a zombie apocalypse film. And you know, people honestly, it was, I was actually in New Zealand when, when everything kind of really hit home. And the UK were put into lockdown and people weren't allowed out of their houses and panic buying toilet roll and dried pasta. And I just thought what the hell is going on? Like, is this is this for real? And, and then I got back and I've never I've met driving through London from airport, I've never seen anything like it, it was dead, like there was not a soul in sight. And unfortunately for me, I had a job offer with an organisation and obviously, the pandemic hit and you know, it, I unfortunately, had my offer withdrawn. And I thought to myself, this could not have happened at a worse time. Like How on earth am I ever going to find a job in the middle of all this? And I was applying for everything getting up at 5am looking for jobs trying to find other ways to occupy myself. And then I got in contact with Tiago. And he told me a bit about the business and I think he offered me the job straightaway. And I thought, holy crap, I've gotten really lucky. And one of the nice things is about OutSprint, I mean, I kind of started as the first first person sort of really on the senior leadership team with the second person on the senior senior leadership team. Below Tiago, and it's been, it's been nice to be involved in building up the business functions and really starting to add really important layers to the business. But the other thing that's been the I'm really proud of is that nearly everybody that we've hired across the last two and a half to three months had been affected in some way by COVID. So people were made redundant, people had been taking career breaks, and where finally getting back to looking for a job, couldn't find a job, people had finished contracts. And people were furloughed, you know, most of the people that we've hired, we've been able to give them an opportunity. That they may not not necessarily have had otherwise, if they'd had another job, and we're lucky to because it means our pool of candidates has has been amazing. And you know, we've brought some seriously good people on board. And we're building an organisation that I feel, has a culture that is pretty special. And everybody is really pulled together, we all want to work towards the same thing. And we're kind of all in a position where we aren't just wanting to work to build something up for our own sakes, we're wanting to help to put, you know, the company in a really good position and get ourselves really good reputation. And, you know, I think so far we're doing a pretty good job.
Mario Cunha:As they say, awesome. thoughts, right? A bit of simily that happening there. You know.
Rebecca Garland:I think I mean, I think, you know, it's obviously a terrible thing - of course - that's happened. And obviously, there are some people that have really not had a good run through. But for me, it has been a silver lining, because this, this job, for me has been amazing. I kind of I had just left my career in an agency recruitment, it was making my first move into an in house organisation. And I never thought I'd get an opportunity like this in a million years. And to be kind of head of people and talent for a tech startup. It's the best thing that could have happened. And it's given me so much confidence in my ability to do certain things. I'm so much happier in this job. Even though I've been working from home for the last three months, which is slowly starting to drive me insane, I felt like I've built an awesome relationship with my colleagues and some of us have met each other in real life now. And it was it's been as if we've not just been talking digitally. It's like we've known each other for a really long time. And there's just kind of an instant, an instant connection there and an instant bond, I think, because everybody has been in the same position and gone through the same things and have worked really hard to pull each other through it. I think everybody's just clicked right? To boost each other. Yeah, I think so.
Mario Cunha:Actually, serves as an excellent segue to my next question for you. You know, so Corona hits you, eventually you, end up in OutSprint, and now you're building a team during Corona? What were the challenges? What were the nasty surprises that you had to face?
Rebecca Garland:To be honest, and it's a cat? You know, it's good surprising, about this part. I mean, the sheer volume of applications that we've had for each role have been unbelievable, because there are just so many people out of work at the moment. So, you know, I think when we hired Ian who you guys heard from the previous podcast, he's our Scrum Master. I think I had 350 applications in 48 hours for that job. So when I got into the office on Monday morning, I was like, oh my god, so I had to spend quite a long time going through the CV´s. But it was also quite a shock to the system, how many people had actually lost their jobs, it was just unbelievable. And to have to kind of really narrow that list down was really difficult. And also a kind of, especially in the current circumstances, I myself applied for so many jobs and heard nothing back there was nothing at all, no kind of acknowledgement that your CV had been received. So I made sure that I went back to every single person to say, really sorry, but keep in touch for future opportunities. I just think it's something that I've always done as a recruiter and I've made sure that I've gone back to people with feedback on interviews feedback on CV´s, let them know if they're not suitable. Because it's not a nice situation to be in to have lost your job or be furloughed or
Mario Cunha:you you are at your...
Rebecca Garland:Yeah, it's horrible and it doesn't really do a great deal for your mental health, especially if all you're doing is sitting at home. Exactly. It's just it becomes really demoralising. And I just thought you know what, it's gonna take me time, but I'm gonna let all these people know,you know. But the pool of talent has been unbelievable, like so many people from amazing companies with amazing CVs have been made redundant or lost their jobs over the course of all this. So, in a way, it's been a good opportunity for us to get some seriously good talent on board. And I feel like we really have we've got, we've got people working for us on our sales team or marketing team, on all of our teams really who I think, normally would have been in other rules, or we maybe wouldn't have been so lucky to get. And we, you know, I feel like, in some ways, that has been a real silver lining for us.
Mario Cunha:Okay, that's pretty good. I'm really glad that you took it upon the task of, you know, giving an answer to everyone that, unfortunately, didn't make the cut. Yeah. That alone is quite a big value. Because I remember also when I was, you know, shotgunning CVs a few years ago, that was the worst. Even worse than getting it negative answer. It was just, they just said nothing. Yeah. Getting no answer. Missed something, you know, yeah.
Unknown:Yeah .I'd rather have a negative answer than no answer. Because it's an answer. Because then you're left wondering. Yeah, exactly, you're left wondering.
Mario Cunha:yeah, did something gone wrong? Did I send it to the right place?
Unknown:Am I that awful .... that catastrophically bad?
Tiago Neves:I'll obviously just started wondering, I mean, this was like the perfect job for me and you start imagining how was it going to be and etc., yeah, yeah. Actually, I mean, so you've not heard anything back and you've already put in a pile, where you're not going to be reached out anymore.
Rebecca Garland:You start to question yourself, you start to question your experience, you question your skills. You question, you know, I was at the point where I was questioning my entire career, I was like, have I seriously made a mistake in in getting into recruitment at all, you know, I'd even looked into, I looked into upscaling, I looked at software development courses, I like the coding courses, even did the Coronavirus track and trace course in case I was able to get a job kind of contact tracing.
Mario Cunha:When you start doubting if you you'll lean your ladder against the wrong wall, that's the worse, you know.
Rebecca Garland:Yeah. And it was kind of, you know, I sat at home for three months, I think, and I frantically bake, frantically bake the bread ate the bread, you know, a tried to find any way to fill my time, you could have eaten off any surface in my house, that's how clean it was. I cleaned the inside of the dishwasher. That's how much I wanted to take my mind off, of what was going on. It was just, you know, it was it was insane. And I knew myself that there are going to be so many other people in this position. And if I can go back and just let them know that their CVs has been received, but they just aren't right for the job. And I'm going to take the time to do that.
Mario Cunha:I really appreciate that you did that.
Tiago Neves:Yeah. And and let's say that, we, we don't yet have all the processes in place, and everything automated and so on. So I mean, this actually took time from Rebecca to do this. And so it was a personal effort also to do this. Again, it's something that we definitely want to do, we will strive to be that sort of organisation, that sort of people. And it's just great, that we've managed to make a difference throughout so for these last three months I'm sure we've touched the lives of many, one way or the other, and we hope at least have left something positive. So even if it was just a minor thing as just getting a reply back to that person, who knows what difference that might have made to that person.
Mario Cunha:I'm gonna say thank you very much, Tiago and Rebecca, for being able to join us.
Rebecca Garland:Thank you for having us.
Tiago Neves:Thank you. Yeah and it was just great to be here. So thank you for having us. And definitely looking forward also for for the next podcasts. And it's it's been great to be here.
Rebecca Garland:Yeah, agreed.
Mario Cunha:Thank you. Thank you. Rebecca any final words, you'd like to leave the audience?
Rebecca Garland:Keep an eye on our job board. We're actively recruiting. So if you're interested in joining us and being involved in the high tech low code podcast, like our LinkedIn page.
Mario Cunha:With that said, and done that is all we have for today. Thank you very much for sticking with us. And please join us on our next episode of high tech low code podcast, where we feature our next guest and approach another topic of extreme importance in the tech world.