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High Tech - Low Code
High Tech - Low Code
#5 Women in Tech: Cecilia Harvey
What does it mean to be a woman in tech and responsible leader today? Find out in this week's episode of High Tech - Low Code podcast, where we chat with CEO & Co-Founder of Hyve Dynamics and Founder & Chair of Tech Women Today, Cecilia Harvey, about responsible leadership in tech and through COVID-19, as well as breaking boundaries for women in the industry.
Hello and welcome to the high tech low code podcast. On this episode of the podcast, we're joined by Caroline Nicholas as our co-host. How are you doing, Caroline?
Caroline Nicholas:I am really good. There is a lovely sunny day in London. So gloomy as it was yesterday. Oh, yeah, I'm doing well. Thank you.
Mario Cunha:Oh, that's great. And today we're discussing the topic of women in tech. And we're lucky enough to have as our guest speaker Cecilia Harvey. Cecilia is a technology executive author and entrepreneur. She is the CEO and co-founder at Hyve Dynamics and has worked with several big names such as Morgan Stanley, Barclays Capital, and IBM Consulting. Cecilia is an advocate for responsible tech leadership and seeks to inspire, elevate and disrupt global business and communities, founder and chair of Tech Women Today and Ladies Lounge. Cecilia, thank you for giving us this opportunity to have a chat with you. I would like to start by asking how are you doing and give our listeners a bit of an intro about yourself?
Cecilia Harvey:Oh, thank you so much for having me today doing great, really fabulous. I'm Cecilia, I'm, as you said, I'm the CEO and the co-founder of Hyve Dynamics we are a sensor technology company. It's definitely a privilege to work for such an amazing team, and how we're just using tech to solve the challenges that many of us are facing right now, such as during the COVID 19 pandemic. So it makes, you know, going to work every day, definitely fulfilling and I'm originally from New York. And I've been in the UK for 13 years now definitely consider myself a Londoner. So thank you, again for having me.
Mario Cunha:That's great. I would like to start by talking about your journey. And so how did you get where you are today? Take us through your career path and technology journey?
Cecilia Harvey:Sure. What for the last 20 years, I've been working in banking and technology, if you would have told me that I would have ended up the Career Technology, I would have told you absolutely crazy. I'm going to be a lawyer. And I would have never even thought that I would do anything related to tech. Because I didn't think that it was cool. You know, all those years ago when I was a little girl, it's it's funny how childhood can sort of be the blueprint for the rest of our lives in some ways. As soon as a little girl used to play chairman of the board with my Barbie dolls. And I had this Commodore 128 computer which is definitely ageing me if anybody knows that.
Mario Cunha:Oh, that's a really good thing.
Cecilia Harvey:So I used to play with that every single day, play with my computer and like playing chairman of the board of the Barbie dolls. So I guess it was into Cabbage Patch dolls, but thrown in there too. So um, so yeah, I guess it was inevitable that I'd be the CEO of a of a tech company. If you look at it that way. I graduated from Wellesley College in Massachusetts in the States. And after I graduated, I worked in fixed income derivatives origination at Lehman Brothers, I was on a trading floor. And although I was on a trading floor technology was definitely the foundation of those businesses, you're dealing with trading systems, electronic trading ecommerce data. So very early in my career, I really learned how to think strategically about technology in order to grow a business. And eventually, I went on to roles where I was running global tech programmes. Over the last 20 years, I think I've worked for every bank you could possibly work for, which I guess also makes me quite old. But in some of those banks and companies aren't even with this any longer. But that wasn't my fault. I've held various roles in large organisations, which definitely helped to prepare me for being an entrepreneur, being a co founder, and running tech as a business, being the CEO of markets and Security Services Technology at Citi Group. I mean, that was a massive tech organisation of over 8000 people globally, over 1000 systems, that 50 different site over 50 sites. So you also you're working in a highly regulated environment. So you're thinking about governance and compliance, risk and controls how to be efficient with your budget, which every business needs to understand how to do and also sitting on that side and in that role, I engage with various vendors that work smaller tech companies, and many large banks make strategic investments in technology companies. So I was able to really see the good, the bad, and the ugly in regards to tech organisations and their strategy, how they service their clients, and really the growing pains and the challenges that many of those smaller companies can make along, go along, encountered along the way. And then I went on to work directly with tech startups and scale ups and eventually becoming the CEO of Hyve. So that journey was quite unique. But also it was very beneficial. Not only did I have the corporate experience, but also through that experience of engaging with tech startups and scale ups. I understood what worked and what didn't work in terms of them receiving investment, and being able to scale their businesses. And that experience was priceless.
Mario Cunha:You mentioned the working with Lehman Brothers and other big brands. In the movies, I always imagined that working in those environments is quite hectic, chaos, confusing. How was it? You have to tell me?
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, all of the above. And I loved it. Absolutely every single second of it. I think that I, the reason why I knew I wanted to work in that type of environment, I went on a school trip when I was at Wellesley was my first year and I thought, my first went into university, I thought, You know what, I'm going to be a lawyer, I'm going to go to law school after this, you know, I'd never had any exposure to Wall Street or, or working in investment banking. And then my first year, I, one of my, somebody who's still my friend to this day, Tanya Ziggler. And she was a senior, and she was going on this trip called the Wall Street trip that the school sponsored. And so 5.30h in the morning, you know, all these women pack on a bus, head down to Manhattan and visit Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Merrill Lynch. And she said, come along, and I thought, well, I'm just the first year and she goes, no, just come along. And so I went, and I saw the trading floor for the first time and saw these amazing, fierce alums. And I thought, oh, my goodness, I was like, this is what I want to do. I just love the environment. I love the pace of it. I thought they were the women that I met, that had also went to my school, were just so fantastic and inspiring. And I thought this is what I want to do. And I spent the next four years preparing for that. So absolutely loved every single second of the madness and the the excitement and the intensity of it all.
Mario Cunha:I can only imagine the energy on the trading floor. To be honest. But that's great.
Caroline Nicholas:Very testosterone fueled.
Mario Cunha:That's one way to put it. Yes. Okay, so has us here in executive in technology, you have led organisations, started numerous projects and work with many other leaders, having had these opportunities and experience how would you describe what it means to be a tech leader?
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, for me, especially today, being a tech leader, you really need to demonstrate responsible leadership. I think that the days are the days of not being accountable for the impact of your technology and the impact of your technology on the pub are not the days of not being accountable for the impact of your tip on over the general public are over. The days where you could be hands off, as an executive are over the days where you can be silent on social issues that are in our that we're challenged with today are over. So and this isn't just for technology. But I think because technology is such a fast growing industry. Because technology has such an impact over everything that we do. In terms of individuals, businesses, our communities. I think that it's important that leaders in tech are responsible in terms of how they evolve their tech and how they lead their teams, especially during these challenging times. We can't have this what I call naive optimism, about technology. You need to ask yourself, can my technology potentially cause harm to the general public? And if so, as an organisation, what are we going to do to make sure that we mitigate that risk and that we don't let that come to fruition? Also in terms of leadership I think that it's not just technically and operationally what you're doing in terms of the right thing. But I think also socially, the same way that we, as leaders want to push the limits in terms of what our technology can do, we also need to push from a social impact perspective in terms of what we can do to contribute to improving today's social issues. So with that type of leadership, those are the companies that people are going to want to work for. Those are the companies that clients are going to want to do business with. And ultimately, those are the companies that are really going to lead in their industry.
Mario Cunha:I see your point of view. So it's not just being the naive, hoping for, oh, my new software is going to change the way we do. I don't know, transactions, but also okay, what how could this impact negatively the society and the community where I live in? Definitely. I see.
Caroline Nicholas:You're taken to fact, the sort of the ethical side of things is what we're doing, or is what we're producing or putting out to the public to customers? Ethical, you know, is it right?
Mario Cunha:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's not just an example, as an example. It's not just producing an app to help during the COVID-19. But also, okay, this app actually can allow people to track the whereabouts of this community. Do I really want to allow people to know where everyone is? That type of thing? Right?
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, I think that you need to, to challenge what your technology is doing. I think that you want to encourage your internal teams to also challenge what is our tech doing? And to think about that, what is the intention of what we're trying to do? And also, what are the realities, because you can have all of the best intentions, but at the end of the day, you've got to get real in terms of what can potentially happen. And then what are you doing in order to mitigate the negative aspects of what can come?
Mario Cunha:I see, using COVID-19 as a segue for my next question, then. So the circumstances that we are now due to COVID-19 mean that organisations have to deal with a lot of change and uncertainty, rapid evolution in terms of digital transformation, you think the current situation has changed what people want to see from a leader?
Cecilia Harvey:I don't think that the current situation has changed what people want to see from a leader, I think that people are just going to want that to be something that's necessary, rather than something that's nice to have from a leader. So people have always wanted their leaders to have integrity, to be authentic, to be empathetic, to be accountable, and to be action oriented. But these are qualities that are really going to be necessary, if leaders are going to be able to navigate their organisation through the turbulent times that we're seeing today. I have an amazing team. And I think that part of my job as CEO is to, just as a leader in general, is to enable them to do their best job by removing any barriers and obstacles that come in their way, it gets back to that responsible leadership and in almost making sure that you're in a position of service to those that you are meant to lead. Also, I think that it's not going to be about simply leading internally, but about also leading within the broader industry or the broader community. So as a leader, what do you believe in? What do you stand for? What are you not going to stand for? I think that employees and the clients that you serve, are going to be asking companies that they work for and that they buy from, to be more conscious. And as a tech company at Hyve, we definitely want to take on that role of being that catalyst that really seeks to bring together different companies and organisations to address issues that do impact the broader community. When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, we knew that our centre technology could address certain aspects of that problem, but we also want it to partner and bring together other organisations on solutions that could help you know, for individuals within government, etc. So really, it will be about leading not only within the company, but also the broader tech community.
Mario Cunha:It's actually a very interesting point of view. So looking at the leader, not just someone who ultimately we can rely on to help us solve our problems, but also someone who can mirror our core values and help the community. That's actually quite interesting.
Caroline Nicholas:Yeah, taking the COVID-19 and the current pandemic situation. So Cecilia, can I ask how challenging has it been to keep engaged? You mentioned your team, you know, a great body of a team you have, how challenging has it been to keep engaged with people while they're working remotely? And working at home? Have you seen any differences? Or has it strengthened that resolve and that engagement?
Cecilia Harvey:I think, for us, it's definitely, it strengthened us as a team. One, we definitely showed that we cared for one another. So just in general, just making sure everybody's okay. You know, trying to understand, does anybody need anything in order to support this new way of working, that we're dealing with right now, but also, you know, in terms of how we deal with people external to our immediate team, certain vendors and suppliers that that we're working with, and trying to understand how we can better work with them going forward. So. So I think that the thing that's been so important is just an increase in the communication amongst the team. And people knowing that whatever they need to do, in order to navigate this new way of working, and just personally and professionally, also just this new way of life that we have, that we're going to have their back basically, and that we're going to support them as an organisation has been so important and so key. And I think that it's just showing that bit of humanity during this time that is really been something that's really helped us. And I think many other organisations are going through the same challenge and hopefully, applying that same bit of humanity to their staff and teams.
Mario Cunha:That's great. I would like to talk to you about Tech Women Today, and maybe some career advices. Could you will elaborate on what Tech Women Today is? And what advice can you give any women venturing into the tech world?
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, Tech Women Today, you know that when I started several years ago, there's so many great organisations out there that were focused on female entrepreneurs and women in tech. So I didn't just want to create another one. One of the objectives of tech women today is really to sustain and strengthen a pipeline of women and tech. And I wanted to start an organisation that provided women with the resources that they needed in order to be successful. So for Tech Women Today, one I wanted to expand the definition of what it meant to be a woman in tech. It wasn't just for people that worked at technology companies, it wasn't just for people that were coders or programmers, or even people that had technical roles within any type of organisation. But really, it's really seeking to understand if you if you work in art, and you work in digital, you're a woman in tech, or if you work in healthcare, and you're doing something related to social media, or engaging in tech in some way. But you're not technically you don't have come from a STEM background, you're still a woman in tech. There's so many different ways to think of how we define women in tech. And I think once we expand that definition, it will encourage more women to join the industry overall. Also tech women today's resource that provides different types of resources for non technical female entrepreneurs that need to leverage technology in order to grow and scale their businesses. So that's another aspect that I thought was quite different that I did I there was a gap that I didn't see out there, that I thought could really help a lot of women to grow their businesses become entrepreneurs, become successful entrepreneurs. And and those women also are what I consider Tech Women Today. Remember someone told me years ago that I was like the Oprah of tech, which I think is the greatest compliment? Because you know what, like, yeah, because like Oprah you know, I think it's important to create platforms that help to amplify the voices of others and help people to empower themselves. So I think that's what I also I tried to achieve with with Tech Women Today is just creating the platform that just allows people to shine and to showcase themselves. Tech Women Today it's a conduit, where I'm seeking just to provide equal access to opportunities and resources that can help women to be successful. And I think that the most valuable aspect of the organisation is women being a resource for each other. So that's really something I think is important and something I'm quite passionate about.
Caroline Nicholas:When you liaise with women, they're women in the infancy of the career, like they may have finished college, university or their mid career. Do you see traits and shades of yourself in terms of where you think they need to change things? Or step things up? Can you correlate and, you know, see those patterns that you may have fallen into early in your career?
Cecilia Harvey:Sure, sure. Oh, my gosh, history definitely repeats itself. But I think that, I think quite early in my career, I'm similar to a lot of people, I think you're just trying to really find yourself and to find out who you are, what you're about, you know, your identity. And I think that, I think you need to, one of the key things that I definitely learned along the way is that you need to know who you are. And you need to be very confident in who you are in your identity. Because every day you're going to be challenged by people in situations that are going to make you question who you are, and through your actions you need to firmly tell them who you are, what you stand for, who you are, who you are not. And then people, because people are going to question your ability, your experience, whether or not you add value, and you've got to know who you are at the end of the day. I remember, you know, there was many years ago, there was a senior female MD. And, you know, I remember I thought, you know, we didn't have the greatest relationship. And I thought, You know what, I'm going to meet with her and see how we can improve things. And I remember her saying to me, she said, Well, I don't see the value that you add. I mean, who says that?
Mario Cunha:That's harsh.
Cecilia Harvey:And, you know, and I thought to myself, and you know, that needed to happen at that point, because that's the point about knowing who you are, because and I, you know, I thought to myself, well, okay, I'm highly rated, my boss, who was also her boss, at the time, thought I was doing a good job, I was recently promoted to be on the same management team as she was on, I had a high manager perform manager effectiveness rating for my team. So I must be adding some value if you put all that together. So you know, I think, you know, the devil is a liar. And there are those that are going to try and tell you lies about yourself, but you have to have the power to choose if you believe those lies. Once you understand that that power lies within you. And you have that mindset, you are going to be unbreakable. So there's a saying that the water surrounding the boat doesn't sink the ship, it's the water that gets in the boat that sinks the ship. So if you don't let those lies get in your head, it's smooth sailing.
Caroline Nicholas:Yeah, it's amazing what you can encounter as a woman in the workplace in terms of, you know, gaslighting, or people trying to make you question yourself. So you're saying you just need to find the resolve and the strength within yourself and push past after?
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, I think that was, you know, one of those things where it's like, man, if I knew back then what I know now, like, if you know that point when I was having that conversation, you know, I think goodness, I had it by them. But though but you're going to be through those, you're going to go through those times. And you've got to have you know, that ability when somebody says that to you and your face be like, Okay, thank you keep it moving. And you know the truth. You don't even have to argue you don't have to debate it. It's like you just feel sorry for themselves. You just don't feel sorry for them that they don't know the truth.
Mario Cunha:Yeah, that's a good point. Don't you know that the bad is on their side that they're probably just reflecting how they feel or something like that.
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, I always say you know, somebody else's opinion of me is that no business of mine.
Mario Cunha:That's a good one. I like that one. Still on the on this subject, because I'm seeing quite an interest in here. But are you seeing any global trends within your work on Tech Women Today? What I mean is in terms of areas that require more focus and attention for encouraging women in tech?
Cecilia Harvey:I think that, I think there's so many different exciting areas of tech right now. And the you know, definitely sort of, you know, trending areas that people always talk about whether it be cybersecurity, AI, machine learning, anything within data, there's always going to be different areas, I think it's really about just finding where your interests lie. And in times change and evolved, things evolve, and you know, just having a skill set where you can really go from one thing to another. So I don't think that it's so much that, but I think it's more about really expanding the definition of what it means to be in tech, you don't have to have a STEM degree, you don't have to, you know, be a programmer, coder. In order to work in tech, and I think it's more about changing that definition, expanding of what it means to be in tech, and that will encourage more people to join the technology industry from a diverse range of backgrounds and degrees. And just from different mindsets, which I think the industry really needs, in terms of having people that think the different way, but having people from more creative backgrounds that aren't as as highly sort of technical, in the traditional sense. So that is a trend that I am definitely seeing now. And I hope that continues.
Caroline Nicholas:Yeah, very much. So. I mean, you mentioned STEM, and when they're looking for take up on such courses, and IT courses, it is very male dominated still. And when I did my degree 20 odd years ago, you know, it was 98%, male, 2% female, you know, and the women sort of gravitate to the bit together. And, you know, I'd like to hope that there has been some movement, you know, do you see that movement and progress when you talk to women in tech are women about to embark in tech?
Cecilia Harvey:I do because I think that, I think there's definitely been progress in terms of us, not sort of boxing people based on their gender into pursuing certain disciplines. So I hope that that definitely continues. And there's just more of an open mind around even though if you don't have a STEM background, per se, you can still be involved in an industry that I think is so dynamic, such an amazing area to be a part of, from a career perspective, and also something where I think you could just continually learn and continually a challenge when you you meet so many meet so many dynamic, interesting people. So I hope that that definitely continues going forward.
Caroline Nicholas:Okay, moving on to the next topic, I really wants to ask you about British Vogue and your recent feature. And for me, Vogue is a magazine that was very much out of reach, and not really one that I could align myself with. And you know, in recent months, years, it has become more diverse with Edward Enfields work. So what's the feedback that you've received from featuring in British Vogue?
Cecilia Harvey:Yes, I'm one I think that the writer Susan Delaney did a fantastic job in terms of just putting forth the, you know, just a very authentic profile on paper and just sort of just helping me tell that story. Edward Enfields it cannot be cannot be thanked enough for making British Vogue, a platform that has shown such diversity, that has shown such significance. Since he's taken over the helm of Editor in Chief, I think that similarly, I would have never have thought, you know, little black girl growing up that I would be able to be featured in British Vogue and to see an article. It was so humbling, and the feedback that was received has been just so incredible. I think that just a lot of what was discussed in the article just in terms of challenges that anybody goes through within their careers. And back to the point of, you know, being a you know, needing to under Stand who you are, and being quite firm in your identity and an understanding that yet, you know, challenges are going to come within your career, there's going to be those moments where you're going to think, oh, my goodness, I can I take any more. But those are really the defining points, where you know, it's your time for turnaround, and for a comeback and to shatter ceilings. So I think that it was a story that really inspired a lot of people. I think that it was a story that a lot of people related to. And I think that it showed that, you know, overall, we're all going to go through challenges, but the winds that are meant to stop, you are ultimately going to push you towards your destiny. I love that quote, Joel Olsteen. But, um, but I think that it just really demonstrated that. And it but the feedback has been incredible. But once again, I think that, you know, the a lot of the credit goes to Edward Emma for, and he's just an excellent example of what so many organisations can do to show that diversity, it's out there, it's just a matter of do you want to show it? Do you want to create the platform for it. But what he's done is just shown that, you know, diversity, it's in there, it's out there in fashion. And it's so wonderful to open up the pages and see so many stat records to see that representation. But also, to see the depth that a publication which you know, traditionally probably was only thought of on a very superficial level. And to see that he's made it a publication of such significance is absolutely a credit to him.
Mario Cunha:Unfortunately, we have to start wrapping up. But so final thoughts. What would the perfect tech culture walk like going forward? I mean, how do you hope the industry will look like in 10 years time?
Cecilia Harvey:Yeah, hopefully, it's not in 10 years time. My views on what it should look like with tech culture, but I think that we're all you know, I almost like to think of it, you know, we're in sort of tech leadership 2.0 phase where, you know, it's time for a new face of technology. And when we think about tech leaders and tech culture, you know, what are those personas? You know, who do they look like? What does it look like? I think that definitely, it's having more leaders that are truly being a force for positive change. I think that it's applying technical resources for social good. I think that also it's leaders, using their platform to unite communities internally and externally. It's technology that seeks to protect the public. It's in it also its diversity at all levels. I think that we need more visible examples of people in roles where historically, we have not been there. I think all people need to see these images where we are exceptional, rather than being an exception. And in my view, you know, that's really, you know, what the, what's that's really tech culture going forward. And you know, I hope it doesn't take 10 years to get there. But I think we're making great progress. And I hope that we continue to see this sort of new face of technology.
Mario Cunha:Well, that's all we had for today. Thank you very much, Cecilia and Caroline for being able to join us. I'll take this opportunity say goodbye to everyone that's listening and for yourself to be able to also say your goodbyes on this podcast. I really have to say thank you very much for being able to join us.
Cecilia Harvey:Thank you Cecilia. Thank you Caroline and Mario, I really appreciate it.
Mario Cunha:I thank you very much. Well, with that said, that is all that we have for this episode. Thank you very much for joining us. And please be on the lookout for next episode of high tech local podcast, where again, we'll feature another guest and approach another topic of extreme importance in the tech world. See you soon.soon